Oh, come on.
Posted by Trey Reeme on July 23rd, 2007
Dude, Where’s my money is just as stimulating as the movie to which it pays homage.
“Tired of getting those LAME credit card offers? Wonder what’s the big deal about a credit score? Wanna buy your first rideor pimp out the one you have?” [sic]
Stunning.
After the illumination that was BarCampBankSeattle (I’ll be gathering thoughts to post during flights all day), I don’t have the energy to tell you why this “blog” from Illinois State University CU represents everything you shouldn’t do with social media.
At face value, “Dude, Where’s My Money” appears useful at first glance – but appearances can be deceiving. It’s a disappointing attempt to exploit social media to sell product. Yuck!
BarCamp reminded me of the crucial need for authenticity and genuineness in blogging.
Is this possibly a student run institution?
Personally, I give them 2 points for trying.
At least they have comments from what appears to be legitimate people—not just lurkers and industry insiders.
Question: Which is worse? Not attempting a social media campaign at all? Or subjecting oneself to the brutally critical Web 2.0 world?
Maybe it’s healtier to view the financial industry’s initial experiments with Web 2.0 as “learning experiences.” Think of it like Web 2.0b (“b” for beta).
You can knock CUs like Illinois State for their effort, but they’re figuring stuff out—for themselves and for the industry. They’re figuring out how hard it is to create a successful Web 2.0 presence and how much manpower it takes, which will give them an advantage a year or two (or three or four) from now when everyone else hops on board. And when those other CUs do finally adopt a social media strategy, they’ll have the experiences of early-adopters such at Illinois State to learn from.
Suggestion: Be gentle to the pioneers. Very few (if any) FIs have really figured out how to make this newfangled “social web” hum. Lots of theory and “principles for success,” but very little actual success.
Granted, many companies are experimenting with social marketing and there are bound to be missteps. However, most of the mistakes we see over and over again have nothing to do with the medium, but with the message.
The most common error companies make when dealing with the youth/young adult market is treating Generation Y (1978 – 200) like they are Generation X (1964 – 1976).
Many mistakenly associate today’s youth market with “extreme” representations and resort to using terms like “dude” and “frickin’” as a way of establishing credibility.
The reality is that Gen Y is a much more conservative generation than Gen X, and “extreme” advertising doesn’t resonate as it did 10 years ago.
For great insights into Gen Y trends and strategies, read the book – Millenials and the Pop Culture by Howe & Strauss. It’s an in-depth look at exactly how Gen Y (Millenials) are different from Gen X and Boomers. It’s definitely an eye-opener.
This is going to be like watching to cool kids pick on someone…
Way to condescending my entire generation, ISUCU. Also, way to do it on a blog that looks thrown-up-on by the early 90s.
Hands up if you think this blog is probably written by a middle-aged marketing director with a name like Linda or Susan.
@Jeffry – I’m with you to a point. I give them propers for trying, but even the comments look a little staged to me.
@Brent: I couldn’t agree more. “Dude” sounds like me (a middle aged communications director) trying to sound hip to 20 year olds.
(What is your generation’s word for hip these days, anyway?) ;-)
Also, they just deleted a comment I posted. The comment was a little snarky, but certainly not offensive or destructive by any means.
Maybe it was immature of me to post a snarky comment. But as a blog trying to position themselves as young as sassy (for example: “you will be automatically signed up (if you subscribe to the blog) to win some cool sh… oops, sorry, stuff!”), you’d think they’d dial the censorship down a notch or two.
Alright I’m done. You’re right Jeffry, this is low-hanging fruit and I’m going to stop beating an obviously dead horse.
I agree with Jeffry—-at least it’s not “humanity helping humanity”. Also, I don’t see any blog link on the ISUCU site and the contact email has a gmail address. As for “Dude”...I have to tell you that after officing in my neighborhood Starbucks for the last several weeks…Dude sounds pretty valid. And I’m far beyond X & Y (ask Trey & Brent). Just my opinion.
Well, folks, I truly appreciate all of your comments and suggestions. I am the brainchild behind the Dude site and Jeffry hit it on the head with an earlier statement, we are trying to find our way. Let me assure all of you that we have done extensive research with students at the university and this is the result of much feedback and tweaking. It may not fit your style, culture, or langauge but the email questions we have received from the students are asking for more. I’m sorry if it doesn’t fit the mold of some but we are moving forward in trying to get the financial information out to our students. That is the most important thing. Will the blog change in the future, possibly. We will continue to enhance the format as OUR students dictate? Absolutely. I truly do appreciate all of your feedback and I will share it with our design team but I do ask that you are all patient with us and at least support the message that we are trying to get out. BTW…Brent, I removed your comment because it had noting to do with the post. If you have a “snarky” comment that relates to any of the posts that isn’t detrimental to the message and education we are trying give, PLEASE by all means, post it! We need all the help we can get. :-) Thanks again for all that put forth the time and the feedback.
If Dude tracks his traffic, today oughta be a busy day for him/her.
I do give them snaps for trying BUT I agree with James that it’s not the medium that’s tripping them up, it’s the message.
But on the other hand (flip. then flop.) I’ve always said the the goal of any marketing piece should never be to get ZERO reaction. Like those shiny happy people so many graphic design firms are happy to pawn off on their credit union clients. Big hooo-rah for not using those. I’m just not sure who the target audience is…. hmmmmmmm.
Paul-
enjoyed the comments. At least it looks like your board is giving you time to sort things out (your 2 year term on the URL)-LOL—-this is a fun string!Wow. I guess regional tastes are more unique than I thought.
Paul, please take this in the good nature that it is intended – this may work for your FOM, but it would never fly in California. Not that the west coast has the market cornered on style or design – but there are a few things that I feel should be mentoned
Ok, off the soapbox and on to some constructive crits.
1, you are referring to 2 movies in this blog that are incredibly irrelevant to the Gen-Y market that you are attempting to breach (Dude, where’s my car and The Big Lebowski). Granted your FOM may still be getting high and watching The Big Lebowski, but do you really want “The Dude” giving you tips on how to spend your money? The Dude wasn’t a cool guy – he was a burnout that was fun to laugh at.
2. The color scheme is assaulting. Have you looked at the MySpace pages for the people in your FOM. Todays youth are very style conscious. IPods aren’t popular because they are the best MP3 player, they are the most popular because they are the coolest looking and easy to use. The people who you are approaching are the trendsetters, you have to appeal to their appreciation of what is cool and attractive as well as something that they can use. GenY is a generation of entrepreneurs.
3. Did you do this in-house? Did you do a focus group? Did you invite some members in to develop a blog strategy? In other words, did you talk to the people who would use this and run the design and content by them first? I am not asking as a way to make a point – I am genuinely curious how the design and content came to be. If the intent WAS to be a throwback style to the 80’s then cool – you almost hit it. I would recommend watching a few episodes of VH1’s “I Love the 80’s” to get a better basis from a design point of view. If you did this in house – pay an outside consultant a little to take a look at it and run through it. Sometimes, when you live in a bubble, it’s hard to remember what fresh air smells like.
4. Drop the pseudo-slang. I know slang is regional, but come on, its hard to take a site seriously when you can almost hear a bong bubbling in the background. That on top of the “I’m not quite cussing so you can’t get mad at me” euphemisms peppered throughout the site are haaaaard to deal with visually and through the internal monologue in my head. You are either edgy or you aren’t – there is no third option.
Now,
This is all said out of love. I know everyone here would like for you to be successful. We are all on the same side and would like to see credit unions go social in a big was and do it successfully. I am sure some people don’t care for OUR blog. But that’s ok, because I am a dork and I accept that some of my postings are a bit dorky and probably only amusing to me. But, like you, I do it because I really want to help people in the field that I care about. I do it for the right reasons and I hope people walk away a little bit richer than when they got here.
If your members dig your site – then rock with it. But remember, if they don’t like it – they probably won’t tell you. They will simply ignore it.
Regarding Denise’s comment, I’ll restate a question I’ve been asking for months now: Is everyone just scrambling to find a message for this unique medium? Because it should be the other way around: Find a unique message, then worry about your media options.
I had a feeling there was student involvement in this social enterprise.
Kudos to Paul for so gracefully stopping by and politely addressing what has been a bit of a ruthless, non-contextual, feeding frenzy on his institution’s efforts.
I agree with Jeffry, and am finding all of the ‘feedback’ here fairly self-aggrandizing and condescending, overall.
It reminds me of the fashionistas in certain hyper-trendy urban neighborhoods. I’m wondering if the web channel isn’t a bit too much like a piece of designer clothing to some.
@ Tony
I’m not sure you want to direct anyone to MySpace for design and color ideas. While I agree that Gen Y is style conscious (and creative), MySpace is at the bottom of the design food chain. I think your iPod example works much better.
To take Jeffry’s point a little further… if this “dude” approach works for them offline, then they’ve done the right thing by taking it online, and creating an integrated, cross-channel approach.
If this is the case, then the biggest crime they’ve committed is not posting since June 7th (actually, whether or not they communicate like this offline, if they wanted to build a dialogue they should have been posting more often).
And I echo Jeremy’s kudos to Paul for a reasoned, rational explanation. Would’ve been easy for him to just blast the group.
And I should qualify that I find ‘some’ of the feedback here offensive, not all, as I wrote.
James – I kinda laughed a little. No, not all myspace pages are what I would call “Good Design”. What I mean it that the templates available to these kids are much nicer now and the ability to customize a personal layout and the use of photography is better than a year or two ago. I relate it to the handbills and racksheets used by indie bands to promote shows. Everything seems a little grungy and haphazard, but as a piece they brand themselves effectively. You can look at it and immediately identify the type of music will be played. The MySpace pages are like that. Kids want more control and they dictate what is “cool”.
BTW all, sorry that my post blew up. I used a pound sign to indicate number 1 and I guess it threw out the code and made me a super loud post.
@Paul, good job in jumping into the mix here and making your case. hopefully you picked up some valuable yet free advice. :)
I’m with you, Ron. They keyword here for me, is “authenticity.” This blog is lacking it in a big way. I betcha their board loves it because they think it’s “edgy.”
Thank all for at least seeing that what we are trying to do is at least an effort of reaching the young adults. A couple of responses:
Roger: You are absolutely correct! The trial by fire period is 2 years so we will either sink of swim! :-) The Board has been very supportive and we have to give them a progress report quarterly at a minimum.
Tony: I WAS going to ask you why you were yelling at me! I know you had some great suggestions but geez….:-) Alot of what you said is great advise and it will definately become part of advisory group discussion in the future.
I have one question for the group and please don’t take this as being a smart alec or as derogatory but this is what runs through our group every day. HOW DOES ANYONE KNOW THAT THIS WON’T WORK??? Again, just something to think about. I was in the CU industry when indirect lending first gained steam. There were a lot of experts that were screaming that CU’s were making a big mistake. Now, it is a way of life for most CU’s. I am in no way comparing what we are doing to the birth of indirect lending but the first CU to go in front of a dealer and offer the service was told it was suicide and they would be eaten alive.
To be honest, the lead comment of this post put a HUGE pit in my stomach. But you know what, I’m willing to try to see if this works. If not, I’ll chalk it up to experience (Like I’ve NEVER done that before! :-) If I need to change things, I will. I’m not proud. But the feedback that we have received from the students at the university and the young adults in our panel has been very positive. We purposely launched the blog while the students were out of school so we had time to advertise and strategically plan what our next steps are.
We will be advertising in September for a permanent Student Advisory Council who will help us reach the young adults in the future. The cool thing is that the Board has already agreed that a member of this council will hold a Board seat in 2008. That, in my humble opinion, is a very progressive move that I didn’t see coming when I recommended it.
So again, thanks to you all for your comments and well wishes. I really am an open-minded guy when it comes to suggestions to help us get the word out to this underserved market. It’s the direct attacks that sometimes get me flared up! But hey, I’m the Dude…I should be able to handle it right??? :-)
Paul—since you are obviously a “risk taker”...when you get this program going, I’d like to talk to you about “marketing to women”. Few CU’ s are willing to try even the mildest form of that too. Until then…I’ll be watching and cheering from your balcony.
BTW..Jeff, the board doesn’t think it’s “edgy” they think I have lost my mind!!! The picture on the blog of the “Dude” with the sunglasses and the hat backward, that’s me! They have never seen me like that! ;-)
That’s a deal, Roger! Out of the frying pan and into the fire. Thank you for your support from the balcony.
Paul,
The way that you’ve responded to this “constructive” criticism has made me a huge fan.
You have shown us all how scary it is to be a pioneer AND that it didn’t kill you. Jeffry is right. Kudos for you for being out there. Most of the folks that post comments on blogs haven’t one of their own but are very generous with their judgments.
I’m rooting for the dude now. Hell, I might even see the movie!! Okay, maybe not. Cuz I did hear that it sucked rocks.
I concur – a quiet demonstration of authenticity, and an openness to learning in the face of fairly intense criticism.
That’s pretty respectable in my mind.
I love it when the comments on Trey’s posts go into double digits. Yeah, “The Dude” reference is kind of a groaner, but the picture of the guy with the “body mod” ear is definitely edgy.
Paul - I second Denise and Jeffrey’s kudos. With the very small percantage of CUs even attempting to understand or use Web 2.0 tools there is a huge learning curve to getting it right. I also give you props for not shamelessly selling your CU’s services, just a discussion of finances. Plus, I’d say even if the movie is outdated for Gen Y, I think you lay it on so thick in some posts that it’s funny and is almost kitschy. *Are ninjas relevant to Gen Y? Some would say no, but the “ask a ninja” series on YouTube is huge because it’s funny and different.
You could’ve easily picked a different Jeff Bridges movie and still made it work in that respect (Anyone want to set up a Tron blog for credit unions? C’mon!). It’s all about experimentation and finding your voice. Although, I would agree too that the red and yellow need to change just a few shades.
And seriously, John Goodman was awesome in that movie.
I can’t see the photos! They sound like the best part!
Ok – wow – where to start?
I do have to say, while it is a little “out there,” I like the risk. I admire the fact that someone is willing to step out and do something a little crazy! I really appreciate the effort! Will it go anywhere? Nobody knows. But if everything that everyone else is trying doesn’t work, then why not try it! I’m with you Paul, “how does anyone know that this won’t work?” And I do believe that there is a group of students that will definitely go for it. And THAT group isn’t being reached by anyone else. Is it going to reach the entire Gen Y crowd? No, but then again, what is? It is such a diverse group of people, that no ONE thing is going to reach the entire generation.
With that, I have to wonder . . . while we’re venturing into social media, are we not also setting a standard of sorts for what social media “should” be? Why not just let it develop? Some will work and some won’t, but why set boundaries? What we think won’t work, might actually work very well – given the right audience.
As for the myspace thing and style . . . no, I’ll admit, myspace is not the best place in the world for getting ideas on style. However, what it does do, is lets you get an inside look into what that generation is choosing for style. Myspace users have a very wide variety of backgrounds to choose from, and they choose what fits them. That’s part of the whole idea behind myspace, is that you design it yourself to fit your individual style. So, I like the idea of researching myspace. Find out who your members are, and what kind of style they are using on their individual sites. That’s what they like. That’s what they’re choosing. Go with that. Use that. And one suggestion, stemming from that, is that they like the idea that they can change it whenever they want. Change it up a bit. I know that can’t be easy, but just something to think about.
:)
How about all these so called experts on social media that are slamming Paul, or telling him how they have new found respect for him because he can take being talked down to, step up and call out what they have done in social media that is a great success. My god, Trabian actually thinks the Verity blog that talks about Oprah and other dribble is a success…why, because all the other bloggers have told them it is and they don’t care if they have no supporting metrics. Before telling Paul how his site sucks, how about proving you have demonstrated that you know what you are talking about. Plenty of social media efforts have had great success, but can any of these “great and innovative minds” telling Paul what he is doing wrong point to their successes?
@Fredrick
The thing about Verity’s blog and some others that could be deemed a “success” is not that they’re particularly insightful (or heck, even useful). But that they represent the company in a raw and unfiltered manner. “Oprah and other dribble” is what is important to that employee so they posted it. It’s transparent.
Where I feel that something like the Dude Where’s My Money Campaign fails is that it comes off as completely fake which is exactly what what the social media expert crowd has an issue with.
If indeed that is the credit union, and that’s how they talk, it’s a great blog. But to use a medium which is made for transparency and candid discussion to put forth poorly executed marketing is not only ineffective, but I’d say it borders on poor taste (refer to Sony’s “Viral” All I want for XMas is a PSP blog, though that used more nefarious methods in its execution).
This is how we measure success in this medium; not in ROI, hits, or a blip on a balance sheet…but in transparent, candid discussion which puts a Credit Union in a closer relationship with its members.
(and indeed, this blog may do exactly that… in which case all this whole thing says is that we’re all not their members – but that doesn’t stop it from coming off as the 45yr old cop that tries to do an Anti-drug rap to “relate” to the High Schoolers instead of speaking from his experience and authority to those of us who aren’t members…)
Brandon’s comment ties this in to a conversation going on at the Tinfoiling blog.
Gene describes how people who visit his credit union frequently comment that it really feels different here>
I’ll let you read the post and comments instead of butchering or misstating the responses, but I used Verity as an example of a credit union who is offering their members a glimpse into the ambient conversations that are happening in the lobby. What you may not know is that the Verity blog isn’t intended to be a member-focused blog—it’s an employee blog that happens to be open to members.
Here’s a piece of my reply:
<blockqoute>What Iâm getting at is this: we are no longer dependent on in-person interactions in order to build relationships and establish trust. We canât use poor lobby traffic as an excuse for being impersonal and if we want to demonstrate âthe stuff credit unions are made ofâ then we must do so in ways that extend beyond our one-on-one conversations.
This is exactly why I like Verityâs blog. The posts are good, but the thing I get the most out of is the way they respond to their comments, especially when those comments come from members. Itâs as though Iâm sitting in the lobby listening to the conversation happening at the teller booth. Verity has a personality to me even though Iâm not a member and have never visited a branch.
Brandon’s comment ties this in to a conversation going on at the Tinfoiling blog.
Gene describes how people who visit his credit union frequently comment that “it really feels different here”
I’ll let you read the post and comments instead of butchering or misstating the responses, but I used Verity as an example of a credit union who is offering their members a glimpse into the ambient conversations that are happening in the lobby. What you may not know is that the Verity blog isn’t intended to be a member-focused blog—it’s an employee blog that happens to be open to members.
Here’s a piece of my reply:
"What I’m getting at is this: we are no longer dependent on in-person interactions in order to build relationships and establish trust. We can’t use poor lobby traffic as an excuse for being impersonal and if we want to demonstrate “the stuff credit unions are made of” then we must do so in ways that extend beyond our one-on-one conversations.
This is exactly why I like Verity’s blog. The posts are good, but the thing I get the most out of is the way they respond to their comments, especially when those comments come from members. It’s as though I’m sitting in the lobby listening to the conversation happening at the teller booth. Verity has a personality to me even though I’m not a member and have never visited a branch."
@Brandon
“This is how we measure success in this medium; not in ROI, hits, or a blip on a balance sheet…but in transparent, candid discussion which puts a Credit Union in a closer relationship with its members.”
What is the purpose of that relationship then?
What is the value – to them and to you, and to the community in which you operate?
And how much money are you spending to engage what is usually a relatively small segment of members if all they are doing is chattering about trivialities?
Isn’t that what Facebook and Myspace are for? What value does a CU add? Shouldn’t the site be a tool for employing the strategy of the CU, and engaging its members meaningful on topics that have social or at least financial relevance?
@Brandon
I appreciate your passion. We need more of that marketing to all generations not just young adults. I refer back to my question in an earlier post: How does anyone know that this won’t work? Can you 100% guarantee that our blog will fail? Or is it so far out there that it makes conventional wisdom go out the window? Here are some statistics that may interest you:
Since yesterday morning, the blog was been averaging 37 hits an hour. This is more hits in an hour than we have been getting daily.
Since yesterday morning, I have received 61 emails through the blog. Some are people from here expressing their hope that the blog makes it and offering good, sound advise for helping us be successful in the future. Others are from ISU students who are telling us that they “think the blog is funny but has really good information” or “when are you going to post something on the difference between a debit and credit card?”
So believe what you want but we ARE getting traffic and since the students are not back in school yet, I believe that our pre-marketing effort is working. Remember, this hasn’t even been fully marketed to the students yet, only to incoming freshmen.
Our philosophy is that we are NOT willing to stay on the side line any longer….it’s time to get into the game. As I said earlier, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work but if we didn’t try, it would have NEVER worked! There is nothing fake about the blog….very hard work by very dedicated people who are committed to success. If it’s not in this form, trust me when I tell you that we will not quit. This is so important to us that we provide this education that we will keep improving until it sticks.
the thing about having a strategy for a blog is that once you start defining what the blog “has” to look like, it makes it harder for all to participate. We decided we wanted to let anyone who works at Verity have a voice. We’re even getting our board members involved.
At first we struggled about whether to allow weaker writers to post, or if we should approve posts before they’re published, but in the end we decided that if we are truly giving a voice to our employees, we need to just be giving them a space to talk. With no agenda in mind. And I think we’ve succeeded.
WOW! I thought this string would end as I was exiting my computer last eve. This is the second highest “posted” string of the year. I have to tell you that as the new kid on the block (consultant wise) I have felt a bit unworthy of consideration. It’s especially hard to get something going as narrow as “women” and “money” and “financial services-CU’s”. Not that I lack the conviction and passion to carry out my mission. But reading all of these posts has made me aware that we are all on a bit of new ground (unless we are doing the same old traditional gig). And I’m not so sure that the word “expert” can be used quite yet. That’s neat! (a word from MY generation). I believe that I now feel more like a “worker among workers”. Feels good!
One 84 word post (29 of which were quoting the site), and it generates all this discussion. Gotta love it.
What happened to Trey anyway?
I posted the following under Trey’s apoligy, but wanted them included in this discussion as well:
While we are being constructive, this blog really needs to take a step back and look at its vocabulary. It’s an awful mashup of an attempt at modern slang with unsightful occurrences of 40 year old lingo. Examples:
“Visit our survey to get some free shizzle nizzles.” The dude should look up that last word at UrbanDictionary.com and see if he should still be using it.
“sh… oops, sorry, stuff”. Seriously. No body says “oops” and the really either just use the word or find out what kids are really calling it now days.
“Cruisin’ for the ladies, taking my friends to chow, racing down Elm St. only to have Barney and his doughnut gut pull me over, man” I’m 25 and seriously had to read this sentence several times to even know what ‘Barney’ was…and I haven’t heard it called chow since Happy Days.
This goes back to the transparency/authenticity talk. If you want to go down this road…do it…but you better sell out to it. Shoot, if you have to, hire an ISU translator. Write your posts in normal speak, then email them to a kid to get urbanized. Better yet, publicize the translator. Acknowledge that you have no clue how to communicate to the kids and that you’re working on it.
That’s all I got.
@Jeremy – I suppose there should have been a “merely” in there with the ROI. Because indeed if you’re building a closer relationship with your members then you’ll probably see it on the balance sheet. Additionally sometimes things like blogs are great in getting people to promote you even when they’re not a member. The “I’m not a member, but wish I was crowd”.
So in a sense, blogs do help one execute strategy, but should be used only where appropriate. Hawking products on a blog is unbecoming (though that’s not exactly what’s going on here), but if building relationships, being transparent, or connecting with the community is part of your strategy then it’s appropriate.
In the case of Dude they may never see an ROI on any balance sheet, but they are promoting thrift and educating which is a value to the community – and an appropriate use of a blog connected to strategy. The concern (and much of the discussion here) has more to do with the voice which is very “Flog”-ish (fake blog). Flogs can actually hurt a brand when it becomes apparent what it is and that’s a serious worry.
Take a look at Sony’s flog from last Christmas
There was a huge backlash to that from the very demographic they were trying to engage. I’d hate to see that happen to a CU that was sincerely trying to engage and educate a demographic.
@Paul – First, I can’t tell you how impressed I am at your responses to this thread.
I hope I didn’t sound like I was 100% guaranteeing your failure (which I certainly cannot do). At the bottom of my post I was trying to make the point that if this is capturing your target, and being effective – then all this criticism proves is that we’re not part of that audience.
My concern was the voice of the blog and that it might be unauthentic. Authenticity is extremely important to what I guess you could call my generation (which I believe is the one that this would be aimed at) and a lack of it is pretty offensive.
That said, I am glad you’re trying new things, and aren’t afraid to! And again I can’t tell you how impressed I am with your presence in this conversation (esp. as people pile on). Regardless of how I feel about the campaign; I’m a fan.
@Brandon
I definitely see your point with being careful about mixing sales and relationship building – aka plugging products on a flog; however, my point was more that an effective use of the social web would, in its creation intentionally re-enforce the conscious strategy of the CU – as opposed to causing unintentional side effects that one could call strategy.
A perfect example – Vancity’s Change Everything. Change Everything is a sophisticated expression of Vancity’s Community Leadership strategy, which is also an expression of Vancity’s values. The strategy is detailed, and built around three pillars, and everything organizational at Vancity should, in theory, contribute to that vision of community leadership as expressed in the pillars. I think you will see Change Everything continue to increase its focus as this strategy evolves and takes life.
It’s sort of a ‘know thyself’ approach that meets the members half way, rather than just trying to engage in a random, albeit democratic fashion, with no real higher purpose.
Is there anyone who can point to a site – published by an organization – that successfully deploys the voice and language of Gen Y? Anyone?? Anywhere??
Or is it just a harsh reality that any corporation trying to reach Gen Y by trying to talk like Gen Y is going to get labled “poser” no matter what?
And what is the style and language of Gen Y?
[questions reposted from Trey’s “Apology” thread]
@Mark and All
I thought maybe I would let this point go but it keeps coming up. You haven’t seen me say that I am trying to mimic the lingo of the GenY’s. The blog is supposed to be a funny, goofy, off-the-wall response from a 40 year old dude to serious questions relating to financial education. It’s supposed to be fun and playful and not degrading to the generation.
If you all could have seen some of the posts on the blog that I had to remove over the past 24 hours from immature posters that some how think that the Federal Govenment and corporate America “doesn’t have a clue on this blog or any other” on dealing with this generation. ???WHAT???
I believe that certain people are now over analyzing what is it for more than its face value and not having fun with it as it is intended. I am not ready to concede that I “have no clue how to communicate to the kids” because it’s too soon to tell but I will concede that I’m “working on it”! :-)
OK, a couple weigh-ins:
Risk-taking as a Badge of Honor only goes so far with me. This is very poorly calculated risk. You missed Gen Y by wide berth. If I want to skydive, I’m going to take lessons that will educate me and help me calculate those risks. Then I will accept and deserve kudos for that risk. Now, if I take scuba-diving lessons in preparation for jumping out of a plane, my risk is foolish. The point you’re missing is that young people of that generation do not need their advice wrapped in lingo and pseudo-hipness, they respond to realness. Paul, you very likely have some valuable wisdom and experience from your years as a human and from your years in the industry. Young people have a genuine need for good financial advice and tips and discussion. If they see that they can get that from you, a person who is being himself, they will respect that. But wrapping it in decidedly Gen X visuals and mutli-generational lingo will get you dismissed. Be who you are. It’s OK.
Get a feel for how online communities grow. Listen. That will be much more useful info than the latest slang.
You could jujitsu this thing if you would own that fact that you are somewhere in the space of middle age and not current on all the pop culture beats. Play to the lamely trying to be cool thing. Then you have yourself some nice satire. You are so close to that point, only you’re still taking it seriously as being culturally relevant. It. Is. Not. And even if you tip in the satire direction, is that really the voice you see people taking financial advice from? Unlike the generation just before us, we don’t have a raging disdain for authority and establishment. We have a raging disdain for being fed horse hockey and told it’s Devil’s Food cake. Talk to us like people.
And don’t misinterpret those spiked hits either. Here’s a that site gets quite a few too, but it’s not because people want to consume it’s info to better themselves: http://www.yourethemannowdog.com/
Whatever my kudos are worth, I will give you some for coming here and engaging the conversation.
@Charlie
Where were you when we polled our panel from the college aged students?! :-) We sure could have used your input then!! Well said, message received. My entire production team has been following this discussion and we have a lot to talk about….IN THE FUTURE. For now, we are going to let it ride and see where the trip takes us. We may crash or we may make our destination but either way we have to start the trip to be able to have an outcome. Thanks again for your input!
@Brent @Trey @Charlie @Brandon
Let’s see some good examples of credit unions (and any other organizations) that demonstrate the correct way with which we should be speaking to Gen-Y.
Enough with the theory. Let’s see some links.
Pleassseeeee.
I do believe that would be very helpful for everyone.
OK, considering the flames that have gone on in this post, I apprehensively submit a blog that is directed toward teaching Millenials about money. It’s called “the elements blog” and it’s part of our youth marketing & education program for credit unions. There’s also a podcast and website that goes along with it.
So here you have it:
the elements blog
Remember, be kind!
James,
Who is Catie? I know the blog says she and her brother were raised by dad the investment banker and stuff but is she real? The link to the website didn’t work.
But if they are authentic – then I LOVE it. AND Catie and her brother need to start blogging on other blogs of interest to drive traffic. I’m surprised there aren’t more comments. The ch-ching You Tube video is by far my favorite.
James, I really like the elements blog. I felt like I was talking with my 19 year old niece. Thanks for sharing it!
Where is the podcast you mentioned, I think I missed it.
Talk about being late to the party :-(
I’ll try to be brief, which anyone who has read my posts will find surprising.
@James – I echo Denise’s kudos on the Elements blog IF Catie and Joey are real people. I have to admit that I think they’re not, because some of Catie’s posts sound a little like “What’s a CU 101”. But since I can’t tell for certain, and I’m generally suspicious by nature, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. Even if they’re constructs, whoever writes their material is doing a pretty good job.
You do get a big THANK YOU, at least from me, for pointing out that Gen Y is a lot more conservative than Gen X. I’m 44 and “on the cusp” of BB/Gen X, but I most definitely am not a Boomer. I’m not a marketing expert either, and I don’t even play one on TV, but am really trying to get attuned to the differences between X and Y. It’s a distinction that many don’t seem to be getting (not here, of course, I’m talking about “normal” people).
Finally, @ Paul: I quote Michael Caine from Batman Begins. “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.” (OK, I had to look up the exact quotation, but I remembered the sentiment).
Go for it and learn as you go. I’ll probably be in your shoes sometime in the next couple of years, so I’ll watch from the balcony and learn too. One request: please consider changing the color scheme to make posts easier to read. It’s very hard on aging eyes that spend too much time staring at monitors.
Note to Trey:
Your date marker is stuck on July 23. My post was made on 7/26.
@John-I have had other suggestions that the color scheme of the text in the posts are hard to read. We will be looking to adjust that very soon. Thanks for the heads up….every bit helps! :-)
First I’ll answer the burning question … yes, Catie and Joey are very much real people … and their father really is a fantastic financial planner.
Now in full disclosure, my agency, Subcat, works with Catie and Joey to develop content for the podcast and blog. But we do so based on their personal experiences with money. We’re now trying to get their younger sister, Lauren, to be a guest author on the blog.
The reason we chose this method is that we really wanted to connect with this generation, and knew our message would resonate more if voiced through people who are going through the same financial journey as our audience.
elements podcast
elements blog
Is this still going! Eventually, we will be able to translate this into a first class primer for social media. Just checked…this is the most posted of ANY Open Source entry since the guys started it.
Hey James, are you the financial planning dad? One thing that really impressed me about the elements blog was how these kids raved about their dad. Maybe you should publish a parenting book?
Thanks for posting the podcast.
@ Dan
Oh no, do I sound that old??? I’m a little too young to be their dad … and a little to old to be Gen Y.
I’ll let their father know that he has a future in book publishing!
No worries about your blog, man! Mine sux! :) Instead of being organic and casual, I erroneously approached the blog stiff and calculating…will do better, but you have to walk before you run.
I will have to say, though, Jeffry poses an excellent question: “Is everyone just scrambling to find a message for this unique medium? Because it should be the other way around: Find a unique message, then worry about your media options.”
We’re all to be commended for diving in head-first, but we really need to make sure we have a compelling message to communicate. <trying>
@CU Warrior
You are absolutely right…you DO have to walk before you run! We all have to keep working and growing so that we can ultimately accomplish what we want to do and that is get the financial education that young adults are looking for in a for format that they will use. Don’t give up….keep trying to make it better as the DUDE is going to do the same! Best of luck to you and your journey!
Jeffry, your question about the medium and point about the message are both right on the mark.
The least effective uses of social media are those that use social media for the sake of social media. The businesses pulling out of Second Life are the ones who heard “Second Life = new coolest thing,” and then crammed themselves into the space without a compelling message, and without understand the community that already existed in that space.
Something that’s different about social media from traditional media (like magazines, billboards, etc), is that social media really just represent communities of people. So effective use involves creating conversations. At some point, to grow a true community, businesses have to understand that their role is catalyzing conversation.
Last April, Dave Armano wrote about creating ‘Conversations Ecosystems’ in Businessweek:
It’s really different way to look at The Message, but it’s the only way this medium is effective.
To that end, Paul, you’ve certainly been effective at catalyzing conversation here. This is definitely the longest thread in OSCU history.
And back to Jeffry, below are a few links of sites I think do an effective job of communicating to Gen Y. Also, though, I will say that Gen Y needs to be further segmented. These are people born between 1978 (or 82, depending on who you ask) and 2000. That is a wide gap, and middle schoolers don’t communicate the same way college graduates do. One nice thing about digital media is that it allows for focused segmentation.
This also brings up an entirely new conversation about segmenting on behavior vs. segmenting on demographic…but that’s another chat for another thread.
Anyway. These are sites I feel resonate, at least, with my subset of Gen Y (22 – 33). Not all of these are social media, and they’re not all marketing, but here they are:
So, right. Some of those don’t have any “copywriting,” per se, at all. But those that do, like Coast Capital, communicated in a real voice that sounded human (a charismatic human). I think that’s the bottom line if your searching for voice.
Brent…thanks for the examples. Especially the FI from the creative folks to our north. You, of all people, know how I feel about the “gender” and “demographic” they used as their spokesperson. That’s darn important too, I believe. I look forward to seeing you in October.
Brent, thanks for the reply. I was originally asking for examples of how we (as marketers) should be talking to Gen-Y, since Paul’s “Dude Where’s My Money” copy was so maligned. I guess I was expecting a list of sites where I’d be able to reverse-engineer a set of copy guidelines. The sites you listed didn’t really do that, but they did answer a part of the fundamental question (of how Gen-Y wants to be spoken to) to some extent:
Takeaway #1 – Humor is good Takeaway #2 – Use video, Flash, and other visual tools to tell your story Takeaway #3 – Deliver it in plain, straight English
The tone and style of language used by Wesabe and Facebook is pretty uninspiring. I’m specifically referring to the corporate copy they write for themselves, not the user-generated content.
It seems that for many of the examples you’ve given that the #1 thing driving the site is its concept (or the concept behind the product). Google, Wesabe and Facebook are great solutions, but little in the way of copy. I guess you don’t need to do much talking when your ideas speak for themselves.
Here’s my breakdown:
Coast Capital Savings Takeaways #1 and #2 apply here. Their much-celebrated concept of the talking Julie is neat, and their overall brand tone is casual and refreshing. This site will likely appeal to many people of all ages. BTW, Julie is a professional comedian in Vancouver. And the site was built by Burnkit.
Philips Bodygroom Again, takeaways #1 and #2 apply, and I guess the candid nature of the product means #3 applies as well. No one would have noticed this product if it had used “private parts” instead of “peach fuzz.”
UMB’s My Ugly Room Campaign I truly enjoyed the concept behind UMB’s campaign. It’s a great example of how online tools can be utilized to build a campaign. This campaign uses takeaways #1 and #2.
Ze Frank’s The Show I don’t get it. I went to the “About” section here and the whole insidery thing was way too much, so, being the loser that I am, I just left—without learning anything about how to speak to Gen-Y, except maybe something about takeaway #2.
Wesabe Great tool, but their copy is dry. Takeaway #3 applies here: “Wesabe is a community site that makes managing your money easy. Enjoy secure access to all your accounts, painless tools for taking control of your money and reaching your goals, and members’ tips and discussions to help you find the best values.”
I Will Teach You To Be Rich By far and away the best example of how to write copy pointed at Gen-Y. I really enjoyed this site. The topics he chooses are far superior to “Phishing scams” and “Know your credit score.” This guy gets it. But, of course, he’s a Stanford grad, as he likes to point out.
Google This site is impossible to review objectively. And I’ve never read anything from Google ever. Everything I’ve heard about Google came from someone else. Takeaway here: Transform the world and the world will do your marketing for you.
Facebook With the exception of Facebook’s blog, their copy and tone seemed really stiff and corporate. I guess takeaway #3 applies: “Facebook is a social utility that connects people with friends and others who work, study and live around them. People use Facebook to keep up with friends, upload an unlimited number of photos, share links and videos, and learn more about the people they meet.” Facebook’s functionality is exciting; their copy is a yawn.
Dude… Dude!!! Dude??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmFBOVZ6BLM
Hahaha. Nice, Jeffry.
Touche’!
Postlude: NY Times article on Bud Light’s “Dude” campaign, six months after its debut.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/arts/television/27itzk.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
I love this quote:
“Advertising agencies have a real difficulty doing simplicity,” said Clay Weiner, the comedy writer and adman who created and directed the “Dude” commercials with Kenny Herzog, a copywriter. “They tend to overthink things, and this was an idea where we thought, sadly, it’s so simple that it will never make it through.”
It makes me think of this:
<object height="344" width="425"><param></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aeXAcwriid0&hl=en" height="344" width="425"></embed></object>Also, this post itself is a case study in simple ideas setting the most fire.